Message Board Archive
General Information
If you have any further information concerning any on the topics mentioned below the please don't keep it to yourself, use the messageboard and share your info with the world!
337 Owners Group Africa
Ben van Zyl wrote
I would like to join a 337 owners group in Africa, or if none exists, would like to form one. Also looking for the Technical manuals on the Airframe and or Engines for my AMO.
No replies were received via the message board, please contact Ben direct if your interested in finding out more. Good luck to him of this project.
AMARC
The question was asked 'Are the aircraft stored at AMARC available to the public? If so what is the first step in getting at them?'
Dave Zavoina replied try the AMARC Web Site, www.dm.af.mil/AMARC. There is a whole section on that subject.
Basic info
Joe Zajac asked
Howdy! I'm shopping for a plane and a friend tells me to look at a Skymaster. I need a safe rig that will fit a family of six. I don't know much about these planes other than what I have seen on the ramp. I would greatly appreciate some basic info, like:
What's the difference between models;
Is there a "good" year or a "bad" year;
What's the fuel burn and op costs (e.g. overhaul, insurance etc);
What's the safety record.
Anything else that you might want to add. Thanks.
Bill Koselka replied
Suggest you get a copy of the Aviation Consumer Used Aircraft Guide. Also, the Aviation Consumer has covered the Skymaster on at least two occasions. I have owned a T337E for 20 years and am completly happy with it. I flight plan 165K at 18-19 gallon per hour.
For six people you would have very little inside luggage space and would need a cargo pod. With six adults, and a moderate amount of baggage you will have a duration of about 4-5 hours. I have removed the two rear seats and as a four place airplane it is almost impossible to overload.
You also might call the Skymaster Center for information at 864.583.5967
Jeff Taylor added
If you are an AOPA member, call or write them and tell the what you want. I did the same and they sent me quite an extensive booklet on the Skymaster, including some pages from several year models of owner's manuals. I have also received copies of issues from "Cessna Owner", "Cessna Pilots Association", and several other magazines by writing them. CPA is a valuable source of info, also.
GM 337 Club... said
What's the safety record. Except for some of the single engine people who thought they could fly one... GOOD... the biggest problems are speed... where a single engine pilot is behind the airplane... these move on down the road a a good clip... landing and take off is around 90Kts. which is the typical cruse for a 150/172.. The second biggest problem is again with pilots... and not the plane... with such big fuel tanks.. 150 gal.. they go and go and go.. and the pilots forget to look at the fuel guages... thus run out of gas.. and you get to meet the dummy on the ground. I finished reading about some guy who took off with out the rear engine running and crashed... I find this hard to believe... as I have purposly done it when I first got mine... and the airplane flys guite well on one engine.. not the 210 that it is when both engines are running but... it isn't a 150 either... I feel that he had other problems after he took off and that is what caused his crash... Don't get me wrong I don't avocate running on one engine... the one in the rear ain't a spair.. they were made to run on both... but, in an emergency... which his take off was not... the plane does fly on either engine. It will make you work for it... but it is a lot better than say the piper twin comanchie... or other light twins... You are not going to like what I am going to say next... but, here goes.. If I had 6 people in my family I would go look at the 310... It has more Hp. and a bigger payload space. The 337 is a cozy 6 place airplane and unless the four in the back are small... you are gona need a lot of safeguard soap... While it has the ability to cary 6 it lacks the baggage area to do it comfortably... Even the Beach A-36 has more room... but, it is a single engine plane.. and in todays legal world... I wouldn't want to fly a single... Their are hours of discussion on the 337... and not enough room here to write it all... I suggest you get with someone that has one and pick their brain... take it flying and see if the crew fits into it.. make sure you ask the little lady... too... what she thinks ... no sence in buying something she will devorce you over.... anything else that you might want to add. Thanks.
In a seperate enquiry Randy Holt asked
Like Mr. Zajac, I am interested in the Skymaster. I have read about it, watched it over the years since Vietnam, and maybe one day soon, will fly one. For now, though, I am doing a Master's-level term paper on integrated logistics support and have decided to do my research on the logistics of owning and operating a Skymaster. I have noted the resources mentioned in the replies to Mr. Zajac's request for basic information; now I want to gather some rather detailed cost and maintenance data. Anyone out there have any good sources? I need it pretty quickly as I attend a school with compressed semesters (only 9 weeks from start to finish). No time available for spinning my wheels.
GM 337 Club... replied
Hmmmm... well would this help you out...
Fuel.. 17gal/hr x 2.20/gal
Oil 4 gal/25/hr x 6.00/gal
Mags O/H @ 500 hr/ 2x150.00
Altnator 0/h @ 500 hr/ 2x250.00
sparkplugs 24 @ 500 hr 24x17.00
Spark plug wires @1000 hr 2 x 250.00
annual insp / yr 450.00
Misc maint /yr 500.00 (tires/seals/hardware)
Insurance * 1000.00/yr The rest of the maint cost are common items no matter what plane you have.. items are avonics, hangar, cleaning etc...
I would think any owner could give you his last years cost which could be compiled to give you a picture of what the costs are... of course you will need to divide this by the hours of operation to come up with an average cost/hr I have heard from others that it runs about 50/75 bucks an hr.. to 100/hr for the turbo and pressurized models... hope this helped..
Insurance
Luther Walley asked
I am an IFR, single engine land ceritfied private pilot with 750 hours and plan to purchase a 337 b to f model soon and begin my multiengine training. I need a source for aviation insurance. Any help??
gmas replied
Yep... contact Skysmith...on the web.. he not only runs the skymaster newsletter but also sells insurance.. at a resonable price...
Dave Zavoina added
I use Falcon Insurance in Austin TX. They are affliatied with the Cessna Pilots Accociation, and have had no negative results in 9 yrs of business. They used to cover my FBO insurance too. Toll free (800)880-2727.
Leo Brodeur said
I have my Skymaster insurance with skysmith and also some freinds we are happy with the work he has done for us , at this time I am a ifr pilot also. you can contact Scott at 1(800)743-1439 and his web site is skysmith.com@aol.com, check him out, I did. Good Luck
More Information about Skymasters
The question was asked about where to get more information on Skymasters
Scott "Sky" Smith replied 'We have the biggest collection of skymaster information and "stuff"
avialble. Hats shirts, clocks, earrings, books, buyers guides, service manuals and more. Quarterly newsletter and group insurance also.'
Send for sample or subscription information. More info on www.skysmith.com,
although we're still new at this web stuff.
Portugese Skymaster
Louis Bennett asked
I have found a 337 and have convinced the owner to sell it. He claims it to be an ex-Portugese Airforce model with the cabin of a pressurized model but it is not pressurized. The aircraft has not been flown by the owner for over two years but it has been flown about three or four times per year by other pilots and has been startd at least monthly. I have the serial numbers off of the site to check the validity of his claim. It is a 1975, low time airplane, approx. 2,100 hrs tt with mid time engines, 600 hrs front and rear. The aircraft was supposedly fitted with a Robinson STOL kit by the Portugeese airforce with a claimed stall speed of 47 kts. It has "beefy" tires and reinforced gear for unimproved landings. The owner is asking us to make an offer. Does anyone have info. on what this plane might be worth and also what "SNAFU's" to look for? The plane has basic avionics and no autopliot. The paint is camo and the interior is pretty bare with six bucket type, military looking seats.
The rear prop is now at the overhaul shop and it just had an annual recently. It has been hangered since the present owner had it. Also can these planes be easily fit with an auto pilot and weather survalence equipment? Thanks in advance for all the help
Peter replied The only ex-Portugese AF Skymasters on the civil registers are CS-ABM, F-GHYD, F-GMBE, CS-AVX, F-GGTN and F-GGTO. Is it one of these. They are all Reims built FTB337.
gmas replied I kinda felt that it was a Reams f337 if it was over their... not to many were sent from the states... to europe... unless it was to our military... the reasion that you are indicating such a low airspeed is probably due to the Pitot tube being so far forward... you are really not doing the slow speed... it is because the tube is angled so far from the attack... that you are getting a decreased flow... and eronious error... A lot of the military planes had that type of system on it... and it was only calibrated for level flight... most of the new ones have a little bird on the tip that can swivel around... these are more accurate through out the speed ranges... but, they still leave a lot to be desired above 18 deg angle of attack... I don't think I would want to go below 65Kts.. and keep it around 90Kts for your landing speed... droping to 65Kts and flairing at the same time... you have a heavy a/c and it will run out of up ability fast when you pull the power off... These airplanes do not exibit a stall like other cessnas... they actually have a MAC and this means that it just quits lifting... too low to the ground and you can call your landing an arrival instead... I wouldn't beleave everything that your stoll kit tells ya either on the distances... a ace pilot with lots of experance probably could get that type of performance but... most cant... Yes I have a 1975 G2 skymaster... and have flown is several different ones... this is my third one that I have owned... the turbo ones are nice but, make sure you keep the MP around 25 to 28... else you will shorten the life of the engines... even though the turbo's say that they put out 225 hp... they are still the same basic 210 hp engine... same crank and cyc's... and that is where they have the problem... RPM wise I recomend that you keep it between 23-2800... don't go below 2300 as the engine starts to exibit lugging tendency... your best fuel flow range is around 2400 and 18MP... here at 5000 feet or better you should be able to lean out to 125 deg below peak EGT... and see a fuel flow somewhere around 30 to 40 lbs/eng/hr... Your speed should be around 140Kts at this setting.. You can tell if you are too lean... you will start to see the oil temp and cyc temp riseing... up... Your gear is the 6000 lbs one that was used for the military... where most are rated at 4200... I would get rid of the fire bottles... they were placed in their because of the military specifications... for europe... They were found to be not effective if you have a fire... if you have a fire... Here a good preflight is worth more... If you are leaking fuel... Hmmmmmmm With the big cowl flap doors you can look into the engine compartment... and check... also around the prop... their is also a big hole... that you can stick your arm almost up to... As far as the autopilot... well I hardly use mine.. The airplane is so stable that it is not hard to keep under control... so I fly mine manually... most of the time.. Good luck with your plane... you have a good flyer... G.M
Russian Registered Cessna F337G
Keith Elcomb wrote
337 owners might like to know that I own the only (so I believe) Skymaster on the Russian Register. This aircraft is in the UK and was previously G-BOYR. This aircraft is a Riems manufactured aircraft fitted with turbo wing. Built in 1975, Serial No:00070
Registration is now RA-04147, I am about to completely respray this aircraft. I am looking for the a really unusual, but tasteful paint scheme. This must include the Russian yellow stars, but all over red is not on the menu.
Advice, photographs from anyone would be welcome. If you email me, I will respond personally and give more details about the interesting side of having a Russian Skymaster.
Scale drawings of Skymasters
James Bogedahl asked
I am a quarter scale radio control model builder/flyer. I
have targeted the skymaster as my next scale model to build. If you can email me any Skymaster drawings that are accurate enough to transcribe
into construction plans I would appreciate it. If you cannot email them I would be glad to arrange postage to my home in Japan. Thank You,
gmas replied
There already is a RCM of the skymaster... Check out Bryan/Bryon aircraft... also Testor has a model of the 337 1/5 scale also... It has several pictures and dementions in the assembly manual... check it out... G.M>
Skymaster Specs
Randall House asked
If anyone could get me performance specifications on a Skymaster (non-pressurized) , I would greatly appreciate it. I am interested in buying one in the future but know little about them, i.e. Empty Weight, Gross Weight, Rate of Climb, Cruise at 75%, Fuel Burn at 75% and any other that may be known.Thanks
Jason Friesen said
I don't have a manual in front of me but I'll do what I can from memory here.
Empty Weight: between 2950 and 3150 for G and H models-lighter for older models
Gross Weight: 4630 for G and H with a 4400lb landing weight. earlier models were 4400lbs unless you put a robertson stol kit on them which increased the gross to 4630
Rate of Climb: usually see about 1000 ft/min with both turning. between 200 adn 400 with one dead and a clean plane on a good day.
Cruise at 75%: about 160 knots TAS
Fuel Burn at 75%: 130 pounds per hour
The newer models (G and H) have a simpler fuel system, and electro/hydrolic power pack for the gear (as opposed to engine driven hydrolic pumps) and the improved clam shell door (less wind noise). The baffling in the rear engine has also been improved for better cooling. TBO on the engines is 1500 hours but they are capable of going much longer if they are treated properly (no throttle jockying).
Title search
Blair Howe said
Any sort of gun from 12000 miles away is pretty inefectual whose ever head it is pointed at. I never found out about the liens until I went to export the plane to Australia. I bought the aircraft from a so called reputable dealer with a warrenty in writing that the artical was free of liens and encumberances. This was 5 or 6 years ago now and maybe the lord has told him of the error in his ways and he has repented. Blair Howe
James Grant replied
Dear Blair,
All the wriiten warranties in the world have no meaning until someone checks the FAA data base.you should always get a title search/lien search.The $150 would have been money well spent in a case such as yours.For a lien to be legally binding it has to be recorded at the FAA.A foreign entity/country can not place a lien on a US registerd aircraft.Also the engines on our Skymasters are less than 750 Shaft Horse Power and thus are not issued with a seperate title.(so no liens can be placed on the engines alone)
Once again we as the purchaser/owner have the final and absolute responsibilty to ensure documentation and airworthiness.
Regards
James
Blair Howe replied
Guess we're not very used to dealing with eels down here in the outback
Jim Rainer replied
It ggets worse - IRS liens are not filled with the FAA and are not required to be filed there to perfect their lien. You have to check all the state records for IRS liens against the owner of the plane. The horrow stories abound about IRS seizing planes from owners or dealers. Eeven an innocent owner who has had no problems for years can get blind-sided when he/she tries to sell the plane or borrow money and the new buyer/lender has discovered an IRS lien. Can be bad, bad news!
Blair Howe replied
Jim, There is obviously no code of ethics in place to keep dealers in line I thought that they would be responsible in order to maintain ther licence and or earn their commision be liable to make sure an aircraft or what ever was free title before they could advertise it as such. You are right it can be bad bad news and I mean eel as in slippery bastard. Blair
Paul Sharp replied
This points out the real value of title insurance - the $150 is really not a bad cost considering the amount involved and the potential stakes.
Jim Rainer replied
More bad Bews. Title insurance excludes IRS liens! Check it out.
Jim Rainer replied
I stand corrected! In this month's issue (May) of "AOPA" magazine, they disclose that the AOPA Title Service does now cover Federal Tax Liens up to a $50,000 limit. This is sure a step in the right direction. See the magazine or AOPA's website: www.aopa.org
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